An idea just came to me as I was thinking about the drain tiles I'm planning on adding to HATPCR in the next version - What if you could places multiple tiles in the same location on multiple layers? That is, in addition to the front layer where Hannah moves and interacts with objects, objects could be placed on background layers.

So, for instance you could place a drain behind a crate, a water level behind a terrain block, or a tutorial arrow behind a boulder. In addition to those existing use cases, background layers would be very useful for some of the mechanics I'm thinking of adding and they could also be used for aesthetics - I could implement them so that any foreground tiles placed in background layers (crates, terrain, etc) are rendered as background tiles, with vfx (e.g. tinting, shadows) applied to make it clear they are in the background.

As for how they would be implemented in the level file, there are a couple of options I see. Adding them in-line with the main map grid isn't really an option because line length matters, so they would either have to be defined as entirely separate grids (separated by some delimiter) or, individual background tiles could be defined via event syntax. Between the two of those, using entirely separate grids is probably preferable, because although it could be sorta awkward to define one or a few background tiles via mostly blank grid, it'd be much more awkward to define a dense background layer tile-by-tile. As a side benefit, background layer grids could be edited in CaveGen via the normal editor and then appended onto the level file you want to add them to (until Jebby adds some way to switch between layers).

I think this would be a great way to add some depth to HATPCR.

Whoa, this could add a lot of possibilities

Having a layer specifically dedicated to water tiles could be pretty cool for creating caves with unnatural water. It would be great if a cave creator could place water tiles tile-by-tile in this new layer instead of being forced to use water levels and air pockets, which in their current state don't allow for a lot of things. Think of something like that upside-down water section from Inside, but potentially even more elaborate.

I think this is something the level designer should be able to control for aesthetic purposes. For instance, if the level were to use HB's fire background, adding a more reddish tint to the background tiles would appear more natural. In fact, maybe the level creator should be able to add a tint of their choosing to the main layer as well, giving the level a different overall aesthetic, like how they use color correction in movies?

this reminds me of knytt stories and i think if you got harumbai to read this thread im sure he'd have something to say about that game and its usage of different layers, since he was a very skilled knytt stories level-maker.

i am in favor of the idea, as long as it can be immediately obvious what objects are in the foreground/background, and more primarily scenic objects can be considered. as it stands, background arrows and whatnot would primarily serve to confuse, and you'd mostly see terrain/boulders/metal crates/spikes used i imagine.

i too appreciate the knytting of stories

I wasn't planning on having specific layers dedicated to specific things, but that might be a good idea. I could allow the water to be set tile-by-tile by interpreting hexadecimal digits as the 1-16 water level. Water might behave in unexpected ways when placed like this, but it could allow for some finer control.



I'm more in Isa's camp in terms of background tinting - I'd opt for less user control to make sure that it's obvious which tiles are foreground and which are background. Adding an overall tint to the level, like a lighting color, would be doable, but I don't think giving individual control of the background tint would work.

BTW this would not be in the next version, but the next major version after that. I already have plenty of stuff on my plate for the version I'm working on now.

transfer characters between layers when?

If you mean moving Hannah between layers, that's almost certainly not gonna happen. This still isn't a 3D game, and trying to make it one is unnecessary and undesirable. The point is to be able to place background tiles, water, and eventually wiring without those things occupying foreground space.