Farewell Interguild. I've finally decided to say goodbye to this wonderful site where all members form a bond. I will leave immediately after the competition. I've already told Livio and asked his suggestion. Livio tried to stop me and he nows the reason why. It's a certain someone or a level which I greatly envy and will never surpass. It's a recent level where the backtracking is really good.

Everyone knows that I'm not great at backtracking in cavemaking. I greatly envy that level or user. I am a minimalist and that cave is so big, as said by Darvince. Maybe I'll come back after a year or I'll join another competition someday.  

You're leaving because of a level? That's ridiculous, this site is shifting away from levels anyway. By the time you come back there may be no levels section at all.

I can't make a level like that. Livio said: His level is too awesome that it made me quit.
It's just frustrates me that I can't make a level like that.

I get frustrated because I can't make good levels sometimes but does that mean I should abandon Interguild? No.

I actually quit a different gaming community to somehow end up in the Interguild again
Anyway you are of course always welcome to come back or visit any time Take care, mister buboy

To be honest, I think you're levels are just as good as the other levels, if not better. And also, I don't really care about backtrcking in levels, I just want good traps, which you make.

This looks to me to be another case of younger members wanting attention and pretending to leave, in a similar manner to Cedric back in the day.

You can do whatever you want, however if you genuinely are going to leave, that's the most petty reason I've ever heard for leaving. 'Someone made a better cave than me'. So bloody what. Can you not improve your cavemaking in any way? Isn't that why ratings exist?

Feels like a silly reason to leave, I have not made a singel cave and still enjoy the time i spend here

Buboy. Don't leave. You have a unique style of cavemaking that is unlike any other, and for the better. Just because you can't make levels like others doesn't mean you're bad at it. All you need to do is learn from these other caves and improve. That's what the Interguild is for.  

Caving isn't a contest. I'll never make anything like Dando did but oh well... still going.  

I don't hang around much because of my study commitments but I've this to say:

Do you make caves for your enjoyment, or do you make caves for fame and popularity and rankings in the forum?

Buboy... Wha...?

I don't have any levels, mostly because of my stupid computer and my extreme laziness. But that doesn't stop me from having a good time on the Interguild! I'm sure by the time I make a level, I'll be having more fun on the Interguild than ever! So, just because you can't meet every single one of your standards doesn't mean that you have to quit! I understand that if someone has outpaced you or something, you might feel a little down, but that's still no reason to just completely give up. People do stuff like that all the time, it's nothing unusual. This, what you're doing, is a little like saying in school, "I can't get a 100% on this test, but my friend did, so I'm going to drop out of school." If anything, I personally am beginning to think that you don't feel welcome or wanted on the Interguild, that could be another reason why you plan to leave. However, I strongly disagree with that hypothetical thought. Every member of this forum is 100% welcome to everything on the site. We all have different quirks, ideas, styles, and habits; we're all valuable members to the database. We all make mistakes, we all reach goals, we all do our things. For example, back in late 2012 when I posted that ridiculous story 3 times, I think I got suspended for spamming. I lost a ton of karma, but I kept going. Things like that happen all the time, no one is perfect. Everyone has their own individuality that represents a slice of this site. My idea is, there's no easily discernible reason to simply quit after someone else may have surpassed you. Doing stuff like that really won't help you, it's best to avoid it.

Buboy, don't leave.

...I couldn't enter interguild for almost 24 hours because of day-sleeping and lots of school, easter work beforehand and what I see?! Don't know what to say here, I'm very surprised. Since I see it for the first time, I'm feeling like saying why you'd leave just because of one level. Are you really going to? This is such a great site which sadly didn't evolve for the last years but if you leave it definitely won't be better, even just because you're the one who often submits nice HATPC levels!

You already know lots, lots of things about cavemaking even though you have joined only 9 months ago! I'm always really surprised when I think about it. My levels submitted 9 months after my join date are just crap. And do I have to know that the cause of your farewells is my 100th level? I don't know, I feel somehow proud it actually wasn't that bad but it's a really regular level for a 100th level, compare it to Dando's!

Or maybe look for the explanation in the description of that level. "100th level!" Yep, made after 5 years of cavemaking and 7 years of knowing HATPC. If you still don't feel the cavemaking the way you'd like to feel, what's the matter? That's only 9 months and the present HATPC climate here on the interguild doesn't help too much. Or look at Dando! That's even more, 10 years! Just make caves when you're inspirated and since you like doing it, and everything is fine. Everyone has its own style and every style has something unique and nice in it. Aren't you curious how your style will evolve after several years? Personally, I like it very much already now, and I was very positiviely surprised when I saw a speed cave made by you! After not too much time you already are able to make wonderful levels, so I can't notice what's wrong in your opinion. I can only think what level you will make after years!

Think about it, seriously. I once left in 2009 for several months from what I remember and I didn't feel well without cavemaking. I was a bit tired of it in 2010 so I was on a two-years hiatus and what? I had to come back here! But still the best feeling was in 2008 when I found HATPC back on the internet after years... Don't do it; if you really like HATPC, you definitely won't last too much without interguild, and that's just the truth.

Look at my caves. See Mystery_Meat II? Yeah, that's my skills of Cavemaking. People are moving away from HATPC, so don't quit because of a level better than yours.

Hmmm...


I don't think it's something like that even though I had slight suspictions, but if he wrote about it all then I think he truly doesn't feel alright with something.

...but wait.





Do I have to understand it this way? Am I the reason of all that gathering here? I just spent a lot of time through over 2 weeks for making and testing my 100th level since it was 100th level and because of that I'm the reason of your leaving and this discussion here? I don't competely know what to think about it, were you going to make me someone who made a HATPC guy leave the site for hating purposes? Let's leave it for now. + karma to evan, he just hit the vertex of it all.


That's the wisest sentence (or question?) I've read here from some time. I just totally love HATPC, and making the levels together with having fun playing them all is just very, very enjoyable. I was on SMW Central some time during my hiatus 2010-2012 and hacking SMW was rather for attention. This is why it was hard to me to finish the hack and I just gave up not too long ago. Here, I enjoy making levels so much, all those logical solutions, arrows, dynamite sequentions, mathematical thinking, that's fantastic! Getting attention for me is here just a little side attention, I don't care about it too much if I just have fun with making a level. Of course sometimes I hope I might get some attention after several weeks of making something important, but then I'm just happy I had lots of fun making a level someone liked and making new ones is still very enjoyable. And as soccer said - you have your own unique style and keep making new levels, I'm very curious how you would make some new traps and things!

* I'm totally leaving. Can you just be grateful that I said goodbye than just leave someday without anyone of you knowing? (Except Livio coz I communicating with him.)

* I'm not giving up, I'm just leaving for improvements.

* Teo, that's what you think of me? My purpose for making caves is I enjoy discovering things or make unique traps. I've got so many reactions then this is what I see. Now I wanted to discover backtracking and that's why I'm leaving.

* I'm not blaming you that I'm leaving.

* I do not hate you.

* I have problems making a cave. Yeah. That's true. I am not contented on some of my other caves.

* Please be happy and don't try to stop me. I've already talked to Livio about this. I will make caves and I'm gonna publish it someday here.

And wait, I'm not leaving yet... I will wait for something, okay?
I know it hurts for me and what hurts the most are the bad things you said about me.

Buboy, if you really want to leave, that is your choice, but I never even made a level, and I still enjoy the site. I haven't made a level because i am too lazy and probably too ignorant -_-  . just wanna say, you are one of my favorite users, and you will always have a place on the interguild. From my first post since I became active, to my hundredth, to now, I wouldn't consider quitting, but if its what you really want to do, who am I to stop you?

No one's said anything bad for you. Leaving for improvements will do you no good. Outside of the Interguild, really no one cares about HatPC. Improvement only comes from feedback.

Another thing... backtracking isn't necessary for a cave. A lot of the time, it makes it even worse...

What's going on with all this actually Buboy, I don't think any bad things about you, I was 37623Pi times more immature here at 2008-2010 and everyone will say so... (I must make a one post round "find one of my old posts which is normal", no caps letters, bad english, or being rude + annoying, that will be challenging!)

But really, now it makes me laugh. You're leaving just because my 100th cave makes you go back to places you have been before just to get further? And the point of your leaving is to just learn how to make backtracking being alone with no one else, then come back and show your backtrackings? Do I understand it well? If it's your choice, you can do anything you want, but that's ridiculous xD

I absolutely don't get the whole "I will never be able to make a cave as good as that so I am leaving" logic. If we all thought way this everyone but Sefro would leave the interguild. When I made caves (I haven't in a long time, though), it was never about trying to be better than other users, but rather personal accomplishment. Trying to make the best cave that I have made up to that point. Although, actually at some points I feel like it was more about just churning out a cave.

I do rarely play caves, also being stretched for time, but this got me a bit interested so I tried Daydream Destiny, and from what I saw (which probably wasn't much), it looked to be a good cave, the type that I actually wished that more people would make back when I actually played caves every once in a while.


I will say that I've always been sort of fascinated by backtracking and levels that don't go in a linear path. They're probably the most complex type of caves on can make, so it's understandable that you might struggle making them. But they're also the coolest to make, because it's a bit of an intellectual challenge to make everything work right. Figuring out how to backtrack is in itself a puzzle. I was very proud of Lethal Defense and Midnight (two levels so old that buboy's probably never played/seen them before) because I was able to solve the puzzle of "how can I get this all to work?"

My basic advice would be that if you want to make a backtracking cave, don't try to make a grand scheme and figure out how everything is going to work before you actually make the traps. Just start making traps like the player would play the cave, and then once your paths crosses an earlier part or you've gotten to the point where the player would backtrack, you then challenge yourself to figure out how to make the traps still work, but allow backtracking (or further progression in the cave if your path leads through previous areas, like what I did in Lethal Defense). Or perhaps just make sure that at each trap you can go backwards without trouble, or build a cave and then worry about how you're going backwards after you've made everything but the backtracking section. Basically, my suggestion is that you don't worry about the backtracking until you've finished the non-backtracking parts, but that obviously you want to keep in mind that you'll be using backtracking while you're making the cave, so that you don't make it impossible for yourself to backtrack. Trying to plan ahead how you'll backtrack never worked out well for me.


That said, I won't try to stop you from leaving. If you really feel like you want to leave, then I guess leave, but just be sure that you actually want to leave, because it doesn't look very good when someone says "I'm leaving the site forever!!!" and then they're back online literally the next day (I'm looking at you, cedric of about four years ago...).

I would tend to think that you don't actually want to leave, simply because you did make this post, either because you care about us enough that you want us to understand why you've disappeared, or because you aren't personally convinced and you want to hear other people's perspectives on the issue. Usually when people leave the interguild, they just disappear without saying anything. Whenever I've had long stretches of inactivity, they've been unannounced. Fungus, magnus, jdouble, flame, imtimi, cedric; when they left, it wasn't with a long goodbye post, they just kind of lost interest and never came back on. You clearly still have interest, otherwise you wouldn't have been here posting about why you're leaving. And if you have interest, and you have time, why leave? I still don't really understand the reasoning, but I guess that's for you to decide.


On a slightly related note, apparently it's been over a month since Sefro has logged on. I hope he hasn't completely lost interest. He's never posted much, but it's still sad every time we lose a veteran member...

Buboy, I've only ever made one cave.

One cave.

That cave sucked.

It was horrible.

Do you think I'm leaving because everyone in the community is better than me?

Well I'm not.

I'm just here to hang out really.

You should be too, because though I still will make levels when I get the chance, I think friendship is much more important than some flash game levels.

Or Shockwave games for that matter of fact.

What I'm saying is, you shouldn't just quit because people are better than you.

I mean, would you quit school just because you are getting a B or an 8 (it depends on your school system and such, but that's the Spanish and American (maybe others) school system), while someone else is getting an A or a 10 (it depends again)?

No, you would not care and you would keep studying.

Buboy, don't be unrealistic, just stay.

But this is just my advice.

Heh, Quirvy summarized everything very well; I don't think anything else is needed to say. It was better for you to write this post and make all your doubts go away after reading the advices. But yeah, try to make a big cave with some "backtracking" and put as many effort as you're able to. Don't try to change your style - you won't get any good effects. Make it the way you'd make it, and it will be the best.

...also, I gave backtracking in the previous paragraph into quotation marks because I really wouldn't say Underpass has any serious backtracking, but I made it so I guess I don't see it objectively. After some traps they just make you appear in a random place from the previous traps and you must go through a part of the previous trap to reach an unblocked new passage. All the logic. Serious backtracking is what you see in Dando's "Time", wooooahh, that was some super backtracking; and when you gonna get the gem in The Pipe Dream, heh.

So yeah, try to make something like this, but don't think it will take several days or even a week, especially if you want the design to be all tested and look alright. When I was designing Underpass, I had some situations I just made pure new traps, but then I just didn't like them, removed them, and took another time to make another trap. Good luck, if you're going to do it!

So I saw the topic's name on phone and started reading and decided that I go get my gf's dad's computer to actually post well.

Look.
The way I see it, this is a community. its point is not to make levels better than others, but rather, to improve, and/or discuss stuff with the people here whether these are levels, caves, games, or other unrelated stuff.

if I would think by the logic of, holy momma, this cave is awesome, can't beat it - I can make you a list of caves that I would never, ever, even if I were given infinite time and motiivation, beat in awesomeness. People here, every one, have made at least one cave which was superior to all their other levels. beating YOURSELF is the goal, IMPROVING. Stuff like RoDB for example - on my standards, is OH MY GAWD cool. and it was made before I even came to this site.

I'm totes not accepting such an exit from the site man I have loads on myself irl, and even if I come here once a week to check out random chat, that's cool for me. see...it's not 'being better'. it is 'being'.


Now lemme see other topics